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Poster: Daddy D Date: Apr 26, 2013 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

"This could have been something really serious and it just shocks me that the band didn't even miss a beat."

Obviously I have no idea why Weir fell. If he was wasted on alcohol &/or pills, however, it's almost certain everyone on stage (including stage hands) realized the reason why he fell, and would explain their lack of concern.

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Poster: Reade Date: Apr 26, 2013 10:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I agree completely DD.

The issue here is not why he fell last night or his bandmates response to the tumble. The issue is that things like what happened last night are not isolated, discreet incidents.

Bob is not well and this is not news to his bandmates, though it does seem to be so with his admirers. Whether it's his hissyfits with his audience, stalking off the stage on his home turf in Marin County screaming 'stfu,' or last night, or the Weir'd 'El Paso' incident in 2010, (also during a long run in the NYC area), it's clear Bobby Ace is just not well. And that his performing days, for all intents and purposes related to musical competency and professionalism, may well be over.
Rumors as to what exactly the problem might be are not hard to find on-line; obviously I have no idea but there's plenty of them out there. One might actually be the case.
I think his bandmates have resolved that as long as he continues to insist on participating, these incidents are going to happen. And they'll deal with them as best they can. And hope at some point his family steps up and addresses the matter with Bob if they haven't already.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Apr 26, 2013 9:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

This isn't a 25 year old kid who stumbles on stage. This is a senior citizen collapsing. There's no way anyone could have known at the time that this was not serious. Even if you knew , as the Relix article says , that he took muscle relaxers, how can you not react at all? I mean John just sidesteps him and Phil just casually glances over. Otherwise healthy looking senior citizens collapse and die all the time. I don't care what you know about what happened earlier, when an older person falls over, you don't just get them a chair and tell them to "carry on" as if nothing happened. You stop the song for a second and get him to a fucking hospital... NO EXCEPTIONS. I mean, come on. Bobby practically falls into John and that doesn't even warrant releasing your hand from the guitar for a second to steady him or you don't even lean over to ask him if he's ok? To not even skip a beat does not suggest professionalism, it suggests a lack of empathy.

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2013-04-26 16:28:09

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Poster: craven714 Date: Apr 26, 2013 11:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: "lack of empathy" ~ spot on

PLUS ONE BIG on that PG. For the love of all that IS,
HELP A BROTHER UP!
Big minus to Phil and John. You could tell Bobby wasn't
too good at the start. If I was the drummer, I would have stopped dead and helped. But that's just me:
What ever happened to "One man gathers what another man
spills"???? Bobby's just Old and in the Way? Gimme a break.
Pahhh-thetic responses from brothers and bandmates...

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Poster: LikeWeir Date: Apr 27, 2013 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'lack of empathy' ~ spot on

Agree!

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Apr 26, 2013 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

Agree 1000% - how can you continue to play while a senior citizen falls on stage regardless of why it happened? Are you friggin kidding me? If someone's grandfather was backstage at the show and stumbled out and fell would they stop - makes me think not.

Phil has the balls to give a donor wrap about helping people after all these shows - then can't walk 6 f'n feet to help a supposed "brother" up off the floor and make sure he's OK? Regardless of what the cause or what he knew, it's a family member. Be pissed later, after you know he's ok.

And then to have him actually sit in a chair looking like he's going into a coma for another 10 mins - I,m shocked no one jumped up on stage to check him if his supposed crew didn't care.

Makes me sick

Maybe this is a karma payback for weir sending Vince off to the hospital all alone in the back of a cab after an OD or walking off stage like a baby.

As much as I didn't like the whole Further and The Dead thing since 95 - I figured let them freak freely - but this is so disgusting - I just can't take it anymore.

It is EMBARRASSING - shit I'm embarrassed for them just watching

If anyone ever posts another thread about how great any of these new shows are - I'm going to puke

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 26, 2013 9:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I gotta agree with PG on this one.

Then again, this scares me:
http://www.jambase.com/Articles/118459/Then-and-Now-Furthur-Cover-The-Clash's-Train-In-Vain

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Apr 26, 2013 10:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

The more I think about this the madder I get.
Maybe even Bobby is so entrenched in the whole "show must go on" mentality that he actually thinks that this was handled correctly.
I think my thoughts would be something like "wow, when it comes down to it, finishing a song is more important to these guys than me."
He was obviously disoriented, and even if he insisted on staying on stage' it was reckless to allow him to remain there.
There's got to something short of a death on stage that will cause you to pause a song and I believe this qualifies.
Again, I have no problem with the show going on after you get him some medical attention. But you can't even stop ONE SONG when someone collapses?
With friends like these.... Right?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 26, 2013 10:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I am w you 100%; in ANY context I am familiar with, it wouldn't have even been an issue--not do you help, but how fast, since in most any setting merely the FEAR of a lawsuit (if it was MY place) would motivate the crap out of anyone around (me?)...independent of love and compassion (well, okay, I never really liked Bob, but I'd have jumped over to him RIGHT away regardless).

Strange.

Maybe it's just my scientific backgrd, but we take EVERYTHING so seriously these days--there's a significant chance that he was literally dying in front of them...maybe that freaked them and they froze?

My only explanation: if it was a wife beating alcoholic that I'd just ripped for showing up drunk, saying "I'll never carry your drunk ass again but e gotta go on", then sure, maybe I'd have let him fall...too harsh?

That's all I got.

:-(

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Apr 26, 2013 11:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I think we don't know the whole story and what seems obvious may turn out to not be. Framed in that light.....

I'd hate to think that it's a Bobby v. The Other Ones thing and they made the conscious decision to demonstrate a "Screw him, he did it to himself" approach. I almost understand the "no pity for self inflicted wounds" thought process. Almost.

Then again, if they have been fighting him in the Green Room over his actions........

Still, at what point does making a statement get trumped by the need for basic human compassion?

Either way, I hope he gets things sorted out for the better. For all involved.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 26, 2013 11:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

Oh yeah--I am CRANKIER than the next guy w my disabilities, and understand completely where he might have gotten to drugs and pain med wise, but even at that, I THINK my kids and wife would at least not step outta the way as I fell on the stage...

Hmmm...

Damn; but yeah, I hope the best for the old bastard cause I look just like that on 3 out 5 days lately.

;)

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Poster: user unknown Date: Apr 26, 2013 12:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

John Kadlecik comments on the incident:

Bob wanted to play... if Phil, the crew & management couldn't talk him out of it, you think i have some magic power? This wasn't overpartying, btw, it was accidentally taking an ambien instead of a painkiller... the shoulder injury is real, & the white guitar just showed up the last couple of shows because it only weighs 3 or 4 lbs

1st reaction: holy ****, man down!
Then, I see several crew racing to help, going to be by his side faster than I can put my guitar down...
Next thought: what is Phil going to do? He's playing on... Bobby had help at this point, so the next person in need of support was Phil...

Pretty f*d up moment... but Bobby wanted to finish the show!
Sometimes the rock n roll life is not all rainbows & fairy dust...



This post was modified by user unknown on 2013-04-26 19:00:23

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 26, 2013 8:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: JK plus points

Plus points for JK for being the only one to comment in any slightly believable way. Or even at all, beyond Phil's apparent "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" statement. Nothing on the Furthur FB page or Bob Weir's page. Just silence.

Also, seems to me JK stopped playing a bit and actually looked while Bob initially stumbled around. Phil didn't even glance that way. I'm sure he has his reasons, presumably even complex ones, but don't we all have reasons for everything we do? Still doesn't make it right.

Once Bob was in the chair, both Phil and John were watching him carefully, it seems, but before that ... nothin'. Seems there should be some better way between "rainbows and fairy dust" and apparent callousness to a collapsing senior citizen brother, even if he did act like a wasted mule before going onstage. (Excuse me, a wasted mule on Ambien.)

The surreal thing is that, while watching it, I was actually enjoying the music. How much more weird, mixed up and bizarre it would be at the show. And onstage, too, of course. I get that. Lots of competing thoughts and priorities. But the reaction still seems WRONG, and the silence and lack of believable response (from all but JK, who at least says something reasonable) is compounding it all.

BTW, if Jambands.com is right, the original paragraph about everyone trying to talk Bob out of going on (and the Ambien) is now down. Which means either JK edited it himself or someone told him to. So silence wins. What's that, Sgt Schultz from Hogan's Heroes in charge of their PR?



This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2013-04-27 03:15:11

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 26, 2013 9:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: JK plus points

Well....I dunno what to make of it all; but, I will say the Forum was sure activated by the whole affair, eh? I don't think I've posted so much in one thread in yrs...

Yikes; where's my Ambien?

It does seem to reinforce that something has got to give with these guys; just stop already. I agree w the folks saying that more than ever.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 26, 2013 9:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: JK plus points

Well, I like how they sound and I personally would like to see them, so of course I don't actually want them to stop. Which I would have said in the 90s, too. (I don't currently "like how they sounded" in the 90s in comparison to the whole shebang of recordings we have now for context, but at the time, rightly or wrongly, I felt they sounded good.)

IMO they should cancel the next couple of gigs. After that they don't play until July. That's two months of R & R, and they need to take it while seriously reevaluating and trying to learn lessons from what happened with Jerry, the rotten way they've historically dealt with problems, yada yada. Not exactly a new idea to them, I'm sure, but all the more reason to take it seriously.

So I don't think "stop" should be the definite prescription, but they definitely need to put that on the table as a real option. I'm assuming Phil's restaurant schtick is his backup plan anyway. And it's not like he couldn't play with Phil and Friends and basically turn it into Furthur Minus Bob. Anyone who wants to play can play, but if Bob's problems aren't just a one-up (which they don't seem to be), they need to get serious about making sure that the Furthur GD "cover band" gravy train doesn't include a "cover" of the sad finale.







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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 27, 2013 3:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Love minus Zero points

I wonder how sticky a memory this will be? I have not watched the vid, but I was shown some awful stills (the worst was a seated BW hunched over his guitar, looking down at the floor). The fake Jerry I thought was fairly useless as a musician before, and after reading some of this thread I'm having a tough time not judging him in other ways. I think that is easier b/c with Phil this is fool me twice, the first being Jerry. I don't have the facts so I mostly don't want to add to the cacophony (I've had a few total non-GD folks email me about this which is very unusual), but there are some things that are universal. Somebody collapses and you deal with that as a medical emergency. Lord, when I first saw the stills I thought BW was having a stroke. Thank God he wasn't with the reaction from the fellow human beings around him. Break the damn fourth wall already! It is a dark filter added to Phil's legacy. I hope Bobby is O.K..

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 27, 2013 7:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Love minus Zero points

My feeling, and that's just me, is that a lot of the anti-fake Jerry reaction is based on what people already think. They don't like him, so he done bad. IMO they all done bad, but Phil's the real leader and he's the one who set the tone.

Well, that was one moment from apparently a long night of Stumblin' Bob. I've read descriptions of the whole show, and it seems this wasn't at all isolated. He was going hell-in-a-bucket on them from the start. What to me is even worse is the complete and utter silence since then.

I can excuse human failings and bad decisions, but I have a really hard time with a calculated policy of being treated like a fool. And I feel that all of us, right now, are being treated like fools and ignored and expected to just dance and shake in Atlantic City and forget it all.

Not cool guys. No one expects full disclosure, but how about a good old-fashioned down-to-earth SOMETHING?

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Poster: beep* Date: Apr 26, 2013 6:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

"Zolpidem (ambien) overdosage can be treated with the benzodiazepine receptor antagonist flumazenil, which displaces zolpidem from its binding site on the benzodiazepine receptor to rapidly reverse the effects of the zolpidem."

Note to Bobby handlers: always bring your benzodiazepine receptor antagonists to future shows.

Now children say that five times fast.

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Poster: Reade Date: Apr 26, 2013 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

Ambien is the culprit again? Ambien got the blame for the 2010 Nokia Times Square incident. Gimme a break. How much trouble can one man have with a common sleep aid? This has just become so silly.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Apr 26, 2013 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I wasn't aware of that, but it still could be a rational explanation especially since it seems Bob is on pain meds for the shoulder sprain. It is conceivable that he could take the wrong pill. Now, if he washed either pill down with "an adult beverage" it's all on him.

I kinda agree with JK about the crew being able to get to Bobby and render aid quicker than he or Phil could. That being said, it would've been nice to see either of them show a little more concern.

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Poster: Reade Date: Apr 26, 2013 2:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I totally get that UK. But we as viewers/listeners can only respond to what we saw and heard. Did you catch the part about how *everybody* strenuously urged him not to go on? Crew, Phil, management? There was a lot of context for this that we were not privy to.
Folks are being ridiculously judgmental towards JK in particular. A crew member was on top of the guy almost before he hit the ground. To hear some tell it Phil and the band "left his dead ass there by the side of the road." Just not the case.

And yes, the 'story' from 2010 is that he poured some red wie down on top of some Ambien.

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 26, 2013 11:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I've been in situations where complete strangers were stumbling or passing out and I've always stepped in to help. It's simply human compassion. We are all just people when such situations arise. Nobody expects a hero, but the apparent lack of concern is difficult to understand.

One thing we have learned in the past 20 years or so....there are exceptions to "the show must go on". Hey P.T. Barnum put down your fucking guitar and help your friend whose nearly collapsed upon you. Ya dick.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 27, 2013 1:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

The stage hands came to his help immediately. That is their job.

The musicians kept playing. That is their job.

I love Bobby dearly, but to expect the whole show to stop when he falls down is not reasonable. There is a middle ground in which medical attention and musical continuity are not mutually exclusive.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Apr 26, 2013 12:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

I'm kind of leaning towards your way of thinking high. But I also can't help but think the "apparent lack of concern" might mean no one was surprised.

Regardless, soemthing isn't quite right about the way this went down.

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 26, 2013 1:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

Surprised or not, it's pretty damn callous to stand by and watch your buddy crumble in front of a large live audience and the entire internet.

I've had relatives with addiction problems and I completely understand the loss of respect and a certain hardening which occurs toward the addict. It is real, painful and may explain what happened on stage.

I'll just say that I am glad my "crucial moments" in life are not televised. We've all made questionable calls.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Apr 26, 2013 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: get Well Bobby.. Video of the Bobby incident last night.

+ 83